Thursday, October 28, 2010

A thought I had while thinking about something else

Pat Buchanan once said that Democrats push assistance for the poor because the poor inevitably vote Democratic. 

I think he was trying to be critical.

19 comments:

Jester said...

Good quote, Ian, and I agree. This is one of the many ways that Democrat leaders buy votes for themselves. Inevitably, though, those same politicians make sure that their "assistance" to the poor keeps people poor so that they'll never stop voting for Dems. I wish it weren't so.

NOLA Progressive said...

OK Jester. I'm going to pull one out of your playbook here. Where is your evidence, citation or general proof that "their "assistance" to the poor keeps people poor"?

That's a heck of a general statement, with a whole lot of exceptions that I can think of right off of the bat.

Also, to take it a step further, why is this assistance to the poor necessarily linked directly to ensuring future votes? Is it beyond belief that someone in political office could choose this course of action simply because they saw the poor as disadvantaged and were attempting to help them? The vote would then rather be the Karmic result of their empathy and not a causation of the action from the jump.

Ian McGibboney said...

Pat's path of logic seems to be this:

1) Republicans would have purer motives to help the poor than the politically motivated Democrats.

2) Until then, the GOP will give the poor absolutely no reason to vote for them, and in fact will practically bait them not to.

3) Still, the downtrodden should vote GOP because it's the right thing to do. Build character and puts hair on your chest, and all that. You'll want us in power when you become rich like us.

4) Oh, and we'll probably keep on cutting your few threadbare lifelines anyway. For your own good.

NOLA Progressive said...

Now that's a platform we can all get behind. Blah

Jester said...

Ok -- I'm back y'all! Some of have work to do, fer cryin' out loud! Glad to hear (from the other thread) that you all missed me! I got all fuzzy inside after reading how upset you guys got after I signed off. Snif, snif...

You're right, I do like everyone to back up what they say, especially real Journalists, unlike myself. I've been deliberately not sourcing my own claims as a way to annoy you and bait you into doing it yourself. Well, at least the "annoy" part worked.

So, in order to stay on your playing field, and to prove that I am a real Jester, I'm gonna try using funnier stuff to back up my claims. Like my idea above about how Dems use entitlement programs not only to get people to vote for them, but to keep them entrapped forever in a poverty/voting cycle. Now, although this cartoon is about illegal immigration, it makes my case about impoverished Americans as well...

NOLA Progressive said...

Ah, I see. It was all part of your quirky but ingenious plan to force us to research information that should be common knowledge. How clever.

However, for someone who so clamors for evidence you are coming up a bit light. Especially given the fact that so many people who are impoverished vote Republican/Conservative. In fact, there is quite a trend in that direction. You can do your own damn research to verify my claim, but I will provide you with a jumping off point. http://web.utk.edu/~nkelly/papers/inequality/KellyEnns_preprint.pdf

So we have you running around basically saying that Democrats have some sinister plan to keep those disadvantaged down in poverty so that they may continue to garner the poor's vote. Meanwhile, you have provided not one shred of the "proof" that you constantly prattle on about. When asked for any, you disappear for a couple of days only to return with a jaded and foolish cartoon, that again doesn't really address the issue at hand.

This comes off as Tea Party Patriotism at its finest. Lots of bluster about how awful things are, and how Obama socialism is making everything worse, but not a stitch to back any of it up with.

Jester said...

Ouch! So angry, so bitter! Yeesh! I should've ducked & covered before coming here again & getting blasted with righteous liberal indignation. OK, ya 50 ft left-wing monster you asked for it!

Link! Link! Link!

Happy now? I didn't think so. God forbid I actually leave this site for 2 days so I can do my job. WTF? Nevermind....

Ian McGibboney said...

Jester, it would help your case if you didn't indiscriminately post numerous no-context links to far-right think tanks and allegedly humorous political cartoons.

Do you really think a column by Dick Armey, the pot of fertilizer that fed the "grassroots" tea party, is any in any way a legitimate source of persuasion? You ARE a joke.

NOLA Progressive said...

You can come and go as you please. However, if you are going to drop loaded statements and then not stick around to discuss them, you may find that a few people point it out.

So for your links I get: a local opinion piece about the ambiguity of what Obama may have or have not inhereited, an opinion piece by Dick Armey which states that if you expand the eligiblity for health care coverage to more people that really need it then the enrollment will go up, and a Libertarian opinion piece that says people expect to much and the government is not here to help us.

Again, for someone who is always looking for those with differing viewpoints to provide "proof" you are a bit lean on it yourself.

Jester said...

Sheesh, lighten up guys! The bitter, melancholy, serious tone of this thread is stifling. Why the verbal temper tantrums? Oops. Forgive me. I almost forgot. Have a nice day!

NOLA Progressive said...

No you're right. Childish spite treating the elections as if they were a football game are the way to go here Jester.

I mean we wouldn't want to confuse any of those Tea Party opinions with the facts. That would just be unfortunate.

Jester said...

You're way too bitter and angry to talk to anymore, NOLA. You need something to cheer you up. Now that you mention it, maybe a football game would do it? Great! Personally, I can't wait for the kickoff :)

Ian McGibboney said...

The teabagging oinker in the dress looks like he's ready to level a head-to-head hit. How's that for a football metaphor?

If only we could engage in real discussion instead of the Toms and Jesters of the world hoping their team wins despite no depth chart or playbook for once they're on the field. But if everybody voted on substance, there wouldn't even be a competition, would there?

NOLA Progressive said...

It's like trying to talk with children...No scratch that; It's worse. At least the kids listen to me from time to time, and they shouldn't already know better.

Jester said...

So sorry to dissapoint you both.

Ian, I'm not falling for your failed ideology. Ever. And NOLA, I won't ever be one of the helpless kids you indoctrinate. I will always be a free thinker no matter what either of you do to try to change that.

I also know that both of you are so firmly entrenched in your beliefs that there's no hope in changing either of you in this lifetime, no matter how much I back up my facts with sources that you approve of. I know a dead horse when I see one.

So, being the Jester that I am, I might as well have some fun! Have a great day to both of you! :D

Ian McGibboney said...

Jester, there's a certain irony in bragging about being a free-thinker and then saying you'll never change your mind.

Being a free-thinker means constantly challenging yourself and being able to morph with time, circumstances and new-found knowledge. You seem to think it means piggybacking entirely on other people's creations to speak for you and to mess with us. That's neither free nor thinking. Where's the sandman at the Apollo when you need him?

Jester said...

Wrong again, progressive. Thinking freely isn't about constantly changing your beliefs. It's about exercising the freedom to stick to your guns in the face of adversity.

Ian McGibboney said...

"Wrong again, progressive."

Is that supposed to be a burn? Because it isn't.

I wonder, Jest, do you actually believe this bullshit you spew? Do you really think we have anything close to true socialism in this country? Do you really think health care reform is the most nefarious scheme foisted on the American public? Do you really think a Hollywood B-movie actor who flip-flopped politically is a symbol of sticking to your guns?

If you do, you need to turn off the Glenn Beck and watch something grown-up for once. If it isn't and you're playing a role, you are a reprehensible dumbass. Either way, you're a living, breathing motivation for smart people to go out and vote. I only wish more people could see this.

NOLA Progressive said...

No doubt. Jester is metaphorically (who knows possibly literally) a little kid looking for a clique to hang on to. I think that he thinks he may find some sort of "circle of friends" in the likes of Tom and perhaps Rob.

Meanwhile Jester you throw out the most ridiculous videos and links with absolutely no basis in fact or bipartisan/nonpartisan research. Granted I'm liable to use a Krugman or Maddow reference from time to time, but I'll also go to the CBO or even the damn Heritage Foundation when looking at facts. That last site is quite helpful in discussing healthcare seeing as a huge portion of current healthcare reform recently passed comes from the Heritage Foundation. Kinda makes you wonder if the GOP doth protest too much.

So, Jester before you run around accusing people of "indoctrinating" kids, actually have some basis in fact to make said accusation along with all of the other bullshit you are full of.