Saturday, September 25, 2010

For quick reference

Regarding presidential criticism:

George W. Bush said, "I'm going to cut taxes and we need to go to war in Iraq."
Critics said, "These tax cuts are a bad idea and so is the war in Iraq."

Barack Obama said, "We need to end the tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans. And reform health care."
Critics said, "This Marxist Muslim wants to undermine America and everything it stands for."

Just a nuance I noticed.

35 comments:

Jester said...

So none of Bush's critics ever called him a Zionist Fascist, but Obama's critics call him a Marxist Muslim? You're in rare double-standard form today, Ian.

Tom Alday said...

Jester, criticizing a President's policies, once the life blood of liberal discourse a few years ago, is now just unfair and not helpful since their man was elected.

It's all much easier to understand once you realize everything Ian says and does is deeply rooted in hypocrisy. I mean he's the guy that predicted martial law, soldiers in the streets and the country destroyed once Bush won re-election in 2004, now though some people diss Obama's policies and he acts like it's the GREATEST PAIN EVER INFLICTED UPON MANKIND. He's a hypocrite. Accepted it and it's easier to dismiss/mock him as just another whacked out liberal moron.

Ian McGibboney said...

Of course there are extremist assholes on both sides. That proves nothing. I'm talking about mainstream political thought here.

Look at the tea party, for example. This supposed grass-roots effort has the GOP paying attention. Their candidates are winning primaries. They talk about taking their county back and speak in broad, insulting terms about Obama. And mainstream TV pundits and even many politicians sneer derisively while saying things not much different than my hypothetical Obama-critic.

That's the difference. The guy with no pants also has no audience.

Tom Alday said...

"speak in broad, insulting terms about Obama."

Oh heavens no, how dare they!

Jester said...

I'm gonna give Ian a chance to back up what he's saying, Tom....

So! Ian -- please be so kind as to educate me:

1: supposed grass-roots effort

If Tea Party members aren't self-funded, then who exactly funds them (source please)?

2: and speak in broad, insulting terms about Obama

Which terms (source please)?

3: saying things not much different than my hypothetical Obama-critic

Which things (source please)?

Sorry to be such a tyrant. You can thank my English 201 prof for that (Nazi!) :)

Ian McGibboney said...

I have to cite proof that Obama critics have questioned his citizenship status, his ideology and his Americanism? And I have to prove that such accusations have been driving the discourse? Really?

Maybe you're not satisfied with my assertion that Barack Obama is President of the United States. Or that I have a blog on the Internet. Source please?

Tom Alday said...

I can't believe people are being mean to a sitting President, THIS IS TOTALLY UNPRECEDENTED!!

Ian, you do realize you have a searchable archive on this blog, right?

Robert Taylor said...

This debate is interesting. When I first got in contact with Ian, we were both opposed to Bush's policies and wanted to remove him fast.

But yes Tom and Jester, Ian is a hypocrite. He wasn't able to keep his critical position consistent. He's a peon for the Dems. Worst of all, you can see right through his posts and see that his call for wealth redistribution is really just a good-old capitalist move for self-interest. He wants to be better off, but he doesn't want to put the hard work in for it.

NOLA Progressive said...

What is this hijack a thread day?

First Jester, if you need sources to see their is an unprecedented amount of broad and insulting commentary about Obama then you should re ally hang it up. Perhaps go look up that old Professor of yours and talk about some sort of refund.

Tom, you'd say piss was blue if Ian said it was yellow.

Robert, do you have meds? Do you take them regularly? Even if your problem is a preexisting condition, there are high risk pools that will insure you now.

Ian, you're point is valid. The tone and tenor of opposition is quite different with this president. There just really aren't any moderates left on the right.

Tom Alday said...

5 minutes of searching led me to these past Ian McGibboney gems (be aware, this was around the time he liked to claim he was an "Independent"):

"fascist whores" - referring to Republicans

"Presenting the 2005 Spring Fascist Show" - a caption on a Condolezza Rice picture

"Somebody needs to tell Bush that all good fascist regimes make their trains run on time."

"all-war, all-hate, Christian-fascist lock-step marches" - referring to people that *GASP* support Bush

"fist-pumping and a fascist chorus of "Four More Years," - Fascists are well known for their strict adherence to elections every 4 years.

"yet get angry whenever truthful comparisons between Republican and Nazi tactics are made"

"he led a chant of "Four moa yeas! Four moa yeas!" as delegates pumped their fists. It was very tasteful. Nothing at all Nazi about that." - Again? Of course school children singing songs about our Great Leader Obama is OK with you though.

"What a major-league asshole!" - Another caption, this time on a picture of Bush

And that's just the words of one loony liberal, amplify that by thousands and you'll get to see why we see it as a joke you about criticism of Obama being "UNPRECEDENTED!!". Once hundreds of thousands of conservatives have a march through New York every couple of months, with thousands of signs equating Obama with Hitler, or pics of him as the devil/killing babies etc then you can whine about the level of criticism Obama gets. I mean jeez, we haven't even gotten around to the assassination fantasies like you guys had with the plays and movies about killing Bush. Oh no we might call Obama a socialist, how looooowwww.

So really, shove all this "OMG Y THEY SO MEEN?!!?" garbage up your ass.

Ian McGibboney said...

Tom-Bomb, you're really using my CAPTION JOKES against me? I mean, there's lots of other stuff there if you just look, which is apparently what you do every Saturday night. What isn't from my caption collection is absent of context. But whatever. All you're trying to do, apparently, is justify the fact that right-wing leaders and pundits speak on a national forum with all the eloquence of a pissed-off college student.

There's also the subtle difference between myself accurately describing a specific subset of people and conservative public figures blanketly accusing half of America of not being American, a la Sarah Palin.

Ian McGibboney said...

NOLA Progressive said...

What is this hijack a thread day?

First Jester, if you need sources to see their is an unprecedented amount of broad and insulting commentary about Obama then you should re ally hang it up. Perhaps go look up that old Professor of yours and talk about some sort of refund.

Tom, you'd say piss was blue if Ian said it was yellow.

Robert, do you have meds? Do you take them regularly? Even if your problem is a preexisting condition, there are high risk pools that will insure you now.

Ian, you're point is valid. The tone and tenor of opposition is quite different with this president. There just really aren't any moderates left on the right.

Tom Alday said...

What does Sarah Palin and her supposedly calling people unamerican have to do with you whining about people being mean to Obama?

Nothing. You're just trying to change the subject, something you typically do when you're cornered.

You're a far left lunatic Ian, that in the past has engaged in the very type of behavior you now find so horrible. i.e you're a hypocrite. End of story.

Ian McGibboney said...

Ha ha...Robert says I'm a hypocrite because I don't equally hate Bush and Obama, and Tom says I'm a hypocrite because I think Obama critics are more unhinged than Bush critics.

And in return, the conversation becomes not about where I'm wrong on a public and national level, but how important ol' Ian is a bad person.

I couldn't ask for better proof of my original point than that.

Jester said...

Once again you wound me, Ian. I'm saddened. For even the simplest of claims you have no sources, no proof, and therefore no validity. I sincerely thought they would have taught you this in school. I was wrong. :(

(Jester out...)

Ian McGibboney said...

Ah, Jester...only you could try to make a serious case for journalistic integrity AND end it with Nelson Muntz's bully laugh. Man, Jester, pick a fake personality and stick with it!

With me, you know what you get. I don't pretend to be an unbiased individual. In fact, I think more people should let their biases out. It's more honest than entire networks that insist to empty slates that they're "fair and balanced." That, more than the bias itself, is why Fox News is so insidious.

I say what I think about things based on information and intellect. Why that offends you so much, I have no idea. I'm also clueless as to why that makes me a bad person. I do what I do and you keep coming back. Despite your repeated insults, I have a feeling it's not out of disgust.

On that note...Tom, I wanted to address something you said earlier. I do indeed have a searchable archive. Where's yours? Or did you realize all the hateful shit you laid on thick five years ago might haunt you later?

Tom Alday said...

Sarah Palin and now a FAUX NEWZ rant out of nowhere?

Really trying hard to change the subject aren't you? You're a dirty hypocrite Ian, just accept it.

Robert Taylor said...

@Ian no I didn't say hate. I said "critical position". You're unable to keep a consistent critical eye on Obama's policies, or as we have now revealed over the course of many discussions, the government in general.

As I said before, most of the things you praise Obama for are about self-interest guised under the claim of wanting to help the public's welfare.

You used to attack Bush for removing the American people's rights and now you push hard to remove American people's rights by taxing them to death. You're a walking paradox.

Ian McGibboney said...

Tom - It's not out of nowhere. It's my entire point. Rhetoric like Palin's and pundits from Fox News dominate the conservative debate these days, which is why it's all so stupid. And you guys are no better. I don't claim to be perfect, but stuff I said in anger five years ago isn't coming from the top from the Democrats like it is from the Republicans. By and large, it is the right who are the hateful, miserable, fact-deficient bastards. If you have any response to that other than your latest pointless personal insult, I'd love to hear it.

Robert - Just where exactly is my self-interest in wanting a comfortable standard of living for all Americans? I've been supporting myself for the better part of 10 years now. I'm insured. I have very little, and manageable, debt. The last thing I want to do is have to be supported by others. I've been in many tough times before, so I understand that hard work and success don't always go hand in hand, and even the most grounded people often find themselves in financial peril through factors beyond their control (economy, medical bills, etc.) . You seem to think that ignoring the downtrodden makes them go away or that all they really need is to be denied help. Assuming you even think about anyone other than yourself at all, which I doubt.

I'm not sure what else to say to someone who equates taxation with the worst human-rights abuses. Maybe nothing.

Tom Alday said...

Oh cry me a river you pussy. Bush had to contend with movies and plays about his assassination, Michael Moore producing Fahrenheit 9-11 as a 2 hour long attack against his presidency and monthly marches of hundreds of thousands of people calling him a nazi and a fascist, Congressman and liberals questioning BOTH his elections...what does Obama have? Sarah Palin criticizing his lame policies on her Facebook page? Rush Limbaugh calling him a socialist? You need to get a clue if you think those things are even in the same class as what you crazies did during the last admin. It seems your jaw is as glassy as the President you idolize.

Also, I love how you try to pass of all those quotes as some kind of "moment of anger" rant, even though they were all pulled from different posts over several years and you just showed they are what you really feel by saying you were "accurately describing a specific subset of people". So it's bad for Sarah Palin to call people unamerican (btw, you have a source for that?) but perfectly fine for you to call every conservative a nazi and fascist.

Do you not see why you are a pathetic hypocrite?

Ian McGibboney said...

Well, of course Blogger ate my lengthy response to this, Tom, but here's the gist:

Bush didn't have to "deal with" jack shit. If some obscure documentary about his assassination that I've never even seen or talked about is your ace in the hole, you better fold right now. As for "Fahrenheit 9/11," yes, it's opinionated. But at least it deals with tangible facts. A film like that on Obama would be all birther/Marxist bullcrap.

As for me, you might have a point if I paraphrased my angriest rants as a prominent leader on national TV, and took them up a notch to suggest that Bush really wanted people dead and that there were parts of America that were un-American. Or that I exhorted people to take up arms around the president and worked them up in a frenzy over all the freedoms they were going to lose by letting this foreigner be president. Which is exactly what shameless whores like Sarah Palin do, lead angry people into believing that all their problems started the day Obama got elected. Even some liberals fall for that.

If you want to argue that no one's listening to Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck, well, I need a good laugh. I look forward to a nice LOL over the contention that more prominent and relevant conservative voices are falling over themselves trying to dismiss such nuttery.

I try to address facts and viewpoints as I see them. I might not do a good job in your eyes, but I think there's plenty of material on Republicans without having to resort to the deliberate personality-based ignorance of the right, who can only hint in polite society at their real troubles. "It's all about government spending by both parties." YEAH. That's why you guys bring guns around the president and set out to disrupt town hall meetings. I believe that.

I say what I want. You don't have to like it or troll it endlessly 24/7 as you do. You're not going to get much done by trying to discredit me. It's flattering, but eventually you're going to have to address the issues, not me as a person you despise. And chances are, when that day comes, you're not going to look so good trying to take the high ground when all you do is personally pummel some obscure blogger from the safety of your keyboard day in and day out.

Talk about hypocrisy and being a pussy...

Robert Taylor said...

@Ian on the contrary, it seems that you are the one who wants to ignore the poor by actively promoting political action that works against their hard work.

You say you want to help them, but then you support having the government meddle with the economy and then blame the economy for the reason their hard work doesn't pay off.

Instead of calling for raising of taxes for the rich, you should have the balls to call for lowering of taxes for the poor.

Tom Alday said...

"Bush didn't have to "deal with" jack shit. If some obscure documentary about his assassination that I've never even seen or talked about is your ace in the hole, you better fold right now. As for "Fahrenheit 9/11," yes, it's opinionated. But at least it deals with tangible facts. A film like that on Obama would be all birther/Marxist bullcrap. "

He "dealt" with shit your side slung all day every day, and he did it with more class that Barack "They treat me like a dog!!!" Obama ever will. Obama isn't a leader or someone worthy of respect, hell, one look at him strutting around in mom jeans can tell you that much about his prissy ass. As for the plays and movies about assassinating Bush and you supposedly not hearing about them...well I'm not sure how you couldn't have, they were reported all over the nightly news channels, I think I first saw about it reported on ABC Nightly News. But I can understand you missing it, around that time you were too busy jerking off to F-911 and posting about MIHOPS and LIHOPS on the DemocraticUnderground forum to pay attention to much news.

"if I..suggest[ed] that Bush really wanted people dead and that there were parts of America that were un-American."

You mean like after the 2004 election where you said Bush wanted to start a war every week and all his supporters were "officially the most stupid, reactionary and dangerous electorate the United States has ever had" ? Like that you fucking hypocrite?

"I try to address facts and viewpoints as I see them."

No you don't. You call people racist for buying ammunition and "evil bastards" for engaging in the same type of mud slinging today that you enjoyed for the last 6 years. Don't try and trot around on your moral high horse, you have archives filled with you acting in pretty much the same manner you laughably besmirch the right for today, you can't hide from it or try and pretend it doesn't exist. You're a full blown hypocrite Ian, own it.

"That's why you guys bring guns around the president"

Total lie. Outside of your own delusional mind this never, ever happened. But hey you know what did happen though? One of you nutters threw a grenade at Bush, luckily it was a dud. But oh no, we called Obama a marxist socialist, how evil we are!!! fuck you.

"you're not going to look so good trying to take the high ground when all you do is personally pummel some obscure blogger from the safety of your keyboard day in and day out. "

At least when that day comes, people will see I've held a consistent position through all my posts over many years. You can't even do that month to month, and barely manage it day to day.

Ian McGibboney said...

Robert: I'm not convinced that removing all government regulations is the answer to our problems. Once again, you're arguing from facts not in evidence. And daring me to do anything, much less support some goofy framing of an issue, isn't going to win you any converts. At the very least, I'd have to see the first sign of compassion in you to take your so-called compassionate position.

Tom: Just like Robert, you take a position from stuff that isn't even true. When have I ever said Bush had anything to do with 9/11? I think Truthers are as kooky as you probably do. I do think the attack gave Bush carte blanche to enact many otherwise unpalatable policies, but that's different than suggesting MIHOP or LIHOP.

It says so much about your position and you in general, Tom, that you have to literally make up shit to use against me. WEAK. Also weak is continuously hammering me over a blog I wrote during the 2004 election in which I bitterly overstated some of my fears, though it was how I felt in the immediate aftermath. At least I have the courage to leave it up for anyone to read, unlike you. As I recall, Tom, you wrote some pretty inflammatory stuff that makes my electorate comment look mild by comparison. And you didn't need Bush's re-election to do it.

But again, thank you for reaffirming my point that right-wingers have to resort to continuous personal attacks and vile lies in just about any situation these days. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if I'm so terrible, why don't you be better than me?

NOLA Progressive said...

Tom the issue at hand is political leaders and movement figureheads perpetuating bullshit. From your Glenn Becks to your Hannity to Newt Douchebag Gingrich. They all run their heads about Muslim, Anti colonial, Socialist, Kenyan born, etc... 21 percent of people believe he may be the antichrist!! So fuck you. This after what? Roughly 18 months. Cram your bitch fest up your ass you whiny little turd.

W cut taxes in a way that disproportionately benefited the wealthy, engaged us in a quagmire for about a decade based on a complete lie, and did in fact, we now know, do almost all of the shit his detractors accused him of. Oh and over the course of eight years you complete fucking tool. I'm so sick and fucking tired of conservatives inventing alternate realities to live in. Oh and Robert don't even get me started you batshit crazy freak. I would think a supposed economist such as yourself would be aware the poor have relatively no tax burden. So fighting to lower taxes for them is hollow lip service.

I apologize Ian for being so coarse here, but I am sick to fucking death of these tools and the rhetoric they represent at large. Its not just them unfortunately. They represent such bullshit. Even if the situation was comparable (which its not) there is no idea anymore of two wrongs don't make a right. Its just fuck them worse than they fucked us even if it takes a whackjob like ODonnell to do it. Its let put questions about shit into people's heads that really have no scientific basis to be questioned. All the while the media and national stage treat these idiots like they deserve anything more than a laugh and dismissal.

They are the dumbing down of America and they proud as fucking peacocks about it.

Tom Alday said...

So you're not going to address any of the many other instances I've shown that prove you're a hypocrite, you're just going to ignore them and focus on a pithy, obviously in jest, comment?

"As I recall, Tom, you wrote some pretty inflammatory stuff that makes my electorate comment look mild by comparison."

Nope, pretty sure I never said anything as out there as calling half the US population "stupid, reactionary and dangerous" I generally keep my ire directed at elected officials or their surrogates in the media, not voters. You're a fucking nutter that thinks F-911 is filled to the brim with truthy goodness, people buying ammunition are racists and poor Obama has gotten more criticism than George Bush. Oh and you're a hypocrite too, but you and I already know that.

"vile lies in just about any situation these days"

You mean like the one about people brining guns around the president? Oh wait that was you. hy-po-crite.

Btw "bitterly overstated my fears" is my new favorite euphemism for "paranoid and delusional ramblings".

Ian McGibboney said...

At the risk of being accused by these douchebags of shameless sychophancy for saying this, great points, NOLA!

Tom Alday said...

NOLA, I hope we retake Congress just to see how much you and Ian shit all over yourselves. I want them to dismantle every piece of shit legislation that your side has used to fuck this county up the last 3 years and actually put this us back on the right track, unlike this MALAISE your side seems perfectly content on letting us stew around in.

goddamn, November can't get here quick enough! I just want to rub your fucking smarmy noses in it.

Ian McGibboney said...

OK, Tom, that's enough. Now you're lying right after I articulated my position on 9/11. Are you even reading?

You've stated your position clearly and repeatedly, without making a case for it that makes sense to anyone but you and your compatriots in diseased discourse. So you're finished in this thread. Use this opportunity to do something productive with your life.

Tom Alday said...

Haha, I made my case quite well you retarded fucking hypocrite.

Ian McGibboney said...

One more thing, though, Tom: Your obsession with Republicans winning just to rub our noses in it shows that you are a vile bully with no honest principle. You are perfectly willing to re-elect the Party of No and effect serious damage to this country just to point a figure at us.

Fuck you, you vindictive, mental midget.

Tom Alday said...

Nope, rubbing your noses in it is just the icing on the cake, kicking your shitty party out of office and you know, having a Congress that actually knows what it's doing is the real prize.

Ian McGibboney said...

That should be, "point a finger," not a figure. Sorry.

Tom Alday said...

Oh Yeah, that was your most egregious error in this entire exchange. :rolleyes:

Jester said...

Ian, I know you're biased. I'm just trying to change your mind by showing that since you won't back up your point of view, it's all symbolism and no substance...

BTW, glad you liked the Nelson laugh. That's what I'm here for :D