Tuesday, June 02, 2009

Deep breath...

I originally started this blog yesterday, but deleted it because I was just too angry and all too willing to cover millions of people with the same gigantic blanket of condemnation. I'm still pretty pissed, and I doubt I ever won't be, over the murder of George Tiller.

I'll start off by saying, as diplomatically as I can, that shooting an adult human to death is perhaps not the best way to prove your commitment to life. Popping a man in a church lobby is not the best pitch either for looser gun laws or for moral superiority. Taking a political fight to the level of homicide is, essentially, domestic terrorism. These people are furious at the U.S. government, all the while showing exactly why we need it.

Like it or not, abortion is legal in this country. Like most pro-choicers, I would like to see fewer abortions, which is why I favor comprehensive sex education and greater social resources for needy mothers who do elect to carry their children. But if a woman feels that aborting a pregnancy is her only option for whatever reason, then she has a right to make that choice. It's hers and hers alone. I would love to see a bumper sticker that says, "Pro-choice means being able to CHOOSE LIFE!" Maybe this stupid myth about people being pro-abortion would finally cease. No one wants more abortions.

Tiller's practice, one of three of its kind in the country, involved specific and desperate cases. Late-term abortions have always been illegal, except to save the life of the mother or to terminate a fetus likely to die at birth. Tiller performed a very specific, private and delicate service for those in extreme need. And what did he get for it? Constant protests by extreme right-to-life groups. Harassment by the likes of Bill O'Reilly and other "journalists." Bullets in both arms in 1993. And now, a fatal shot. The backpedaling going on by many of these groups in the wake of the murder could power our police cars for a year.

Of course, rigid ideologies die harder than their victims. O'Reilly and Fr. Frank Pavone have both dispassionately condemned Tiller's killing, but go out of their way to remind us that the doctor was a high-volume abortionist. As if that justifies his death! Really? Such talk is proof positive that the "pro-life" position isn't about life so much as it is about politics above humanity. You know who else puts politics above humanity. That's not a question, by the way. You know.

As much I despised the Bush administration and still have no use for far-right politics and wannabe theocrats, I would never call for anyone's death. Murder over political differences is a terrorist tactic that brings us to the level of our enemies. I'm saddened, but honestly not all that shocked, by the lack of ringing condemnation from the "pro-life" camp over this. I've heard some, granted, but none with any real conviction. No one's said, "Wow. Let's get some perspective on this. The trick is to change the law, not kill those who follow it. How does that mesh in any way with what Jesus preached? We value ALL life, not just the unborn. People like Scott P. Roeder do not represent us. But it is our fault for what could be seen as conflating our politics with full-on domestic war. We will seek to reduce this in the future."

I'm not holding my breath.

Way to set back the "pro-life" movement 10,000 years, Scott. As if it wasn't in a different era already.

47 comments:

Tjenkins said...

Nice strawman in the last paragraph there.

NOLA Progressive said...

Let's make sure that if in any reports in the future, the government finds that right-wing fundamentalists are a significant terrorist threat to our country that we censure that quickly. We wouldn't want to seem partisan or upset anyone. I mean after all there are plenty of doctors out there.

Tjenkins said...

Hey how come none of you are talking about the anti war muslim convert that shot and killed a US soldier yesterday in Arkansas for political and religious reasons?

Oh wait, I forgot you liberals love it when US soldiers are killed.

Ian McGibboney said...

Well, he's an idiot too. Plus, he's being brought up on 15 charges of domestic terrorism, which is exactly what Roeder deserves as well.

Speaking of straw men...how about your last lovely comment, Teej? I have lots of friends and family in the military. I don't want them to die. And I know you know that. Try again, jerk.

Tjenkins said...

If you love the military so much why no sneering article about that jackass? I guess maybe his beliefs hit a little close to home, him being a anti war loon like you?

and Ian, I'm sure you love the military in the same way Chris Brown loves Rhianna.

Ian McGibboney said...

"If you love the military so much why no sneering article about that jackass?"

Because only people like you would even suggest that I hate the military. Or that I have something in common with a guy who kills people.

I'm sorry, do you have anything to say about the actual point of this blog?

Tjenkins said...

Ian, we all know you, and all your liberal buddies, hate the military. This guy that killed William Long is you after another few years of bouncing around your liberal echo chamber.

As for something about the article, I love your opening comment, as if you had some intense personal dialog about whether or not to post another article full of half truths, smears and strawmen.

Before yesterday you didn't even know Tiller, now you'll be pissed forever that he was killed. Get real, you read about him on your daily liberal blog RSS feed update and it formed your opinion that he was a champion and his loss is horrible. All you care about is having another opportunity to attack anyone to the right of you. You are pathetically transparent.

NOLA Progressive said...

Jenkins you pass the point of civility and do what all of your type do. Forget the point because you know it is 100% accurate. You can't summon the humanity to stand firmly on the idea that the assassination of a law abiding citizen in a church based on some fundamental religious logic is wrong. What is wrong with you man. I and I would imagine Ian and others, abhor the killing of our soliders by Islamic fundamentalists. It's awful and I hope the individual is brought to justice, but there are plenty of highly active groups monitoring and pointing out these types of folks.

Let me phrase this differently. Have you been on a "liberal" blog site where you have seen people leaving comments that support the individual who killed the soldier? I haven't. I've seen volumes of "he got what he deserved" type comments all over the conservative blogosphere at Fox News, Free Republic, Operation Rescue, etc... There is your fundamental difference.

Also you should seriously consider moderating comments like "Oh wait, I forgot you liberals love it when US soldiers are killed." It is a ridiculous comment that reflects extremely poor character.

Ian McGibboney said...

TJenkins, if you can find anything that I've ever written that suggests I dislike the military, much less call for any of them to die, by all means cite it. Hell, I'll accept any example of any liberal blogger expressing happiness over the recruiter's death. You've apparently seen so many, so finding one should be a breeze.

Until then, stop for your own sake.

TJenkins said...

"You can't summon the humanity to stand firmly on the idea that the assassination of a law abiding citizen in a church based on some fundamental religious logic is wrong."

Yes I can, it's wrong. I never said I applauded his murder. I just wondered about Ian's double standard when a day later a similar politically-motivated attack occurred against the military he supposedly cares so much about (by someone from his "side") and he fails to mention it. Since he mentions this poltical assassination and not the one against William Long, I can only assume he either applauds the death of William Long or is nothing but a shill for whatever liberal meme he read on DailyKos to start his day. Which is it?

Ian McGibboney said...

The abortion-doctor incident is the culmination of a long campaign of hatred, protest and even past shootings of this man. Bill O'Reilly often called him "Tiller the Baby Killer." The response to the murder from the right suggests to me that some find this act somehow acceptable. I find that, frankly, frightening.

The shooting of the military recruiters was done by a guy who police say was not connected to any network or campaign. I don't know of anyone, regardless of beliefs, that sees this guy as some hero.

TJenkins, your attempt at some bullshit liberal/conservative dichotomy with these two events is an act of sheer (and tired) desperation. It's also wrong on too many levels to count.

Maybe instead of accusing me of cribbing material from blogs I rarely read, TJenkins, perhaps you could offer up your own opinion about the abortion shooting. You haven't touched it yet.

Tjenkins said...

"The abortion-doctor incident is the culmination of a long campaign of hatred, protest and even past shootings of this man. Bill O'Reilly often called him "Tiller the Baby Killer.""

Oh no, how dare people have opinions of other people. We should stop this sort of thing right now! Does this moratorium on mean words only apply to conservative commentators?

"perhaps you could offer up your own opinion about the abortion shooting. You haven't touched it yet."

Perhaps you should learn to read you fucking ponce, I said it was wrong in my comment directly above yours.

Ian McGibboney said...

I get the feeling that, if a liberal told you not to jump off a cliff, you'd jump off a cliff. Am I right?

Michael said...

I'm one of those "liberal friends" of Ian's, TJ. If you look very hard over my shoulder, you will see a long line of men wearing the uniform of this country in its various permutations, stretching all the way back to the Revolution. Those are my relatives, one of whom died at Valley Forge during that terrible winter. Another one was a crewman on, I believe, a B-24 that was shot down over Germany in the last year of World War II. Another was a great-uncle whom I never got to meet, because he died a few years after returning from being gassed in France during the first war to end all wars. Another of them is my dad. And another one is my stepdad. And all of them are giving you the finger for having the chutzpah to assert, without justification, that liberals must necessarily hate the military. You forget, quite a lot of us are well-connected to it, and all of us depend on it to protect our borders.

Would we like to see it used more appropriately? Who the hell with a brain wouldn't? Would we like to see our men and women in uniform treated with respect by the government they swore to uphold? Hell, yes--including being paid a living wage so their families don't have to apply for food stamps while they're on their third deployment, and having their government give them all the equipment and materiel they need to do the job they've been given to do. Funny how the Republicans all talk a good game about supporting the troops, but then can't be bothered to follow through on their hollow promises when it would mean actual dollars won't go to enrich some skanky Wall Street stockbroker's golden parachute or providing yet another tax cut for corporations and the super-wealthy.

Really, TJ, you ought to be ashamed of yourself and your party.

TJenkins said...

Lol, that all strikes me as a "but but some of my best friends are black!" type comment you hear from certain people. Liberals hate the military. I've seen the signs at your little antiwar rallies, you can't deny the uncontrolable hatred you have for people in uniform.

If you're so concerned about their pay why don't you let Congress, who has been controlled by your party for almost 4 years now, about it.

Ian McGibboney said...

Michael, thanks for that. My grandfather was a Navy Seabee who toured Nagasaki in the immediate aftermath of the bombing. My uncle was on the front lines during the Tet Offensive, claims to have been spit upon after returning home and he's one of the staunchest liberals you'll ever meet. Several of my cousins (including my uncle's son), friends and/or their spouses have done multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't want a single one to die, now or ever, especially for a politically dubious cause.

There's a huge difference between protesting the policies of civilian political leadership and hating those who pledge to follow those orders. I hope, TJenkins, that you are just pretending not to be aware of this. I'd hate to think you really can't tell the difference.

Tjenkins said...

"no guys, some of my best friends are in the military, honest!"

harold D said...

Tjenkins, the bombastic rhetoric you bring to these discussions is like trying to have a constructive conversation with a grave stone. You are so entrenched in your hate-filled (and outdated) dogma that you couldn't (or wouldn't) recognise the truth if it slapped you up side the head. It's sad, really, and I feel sorry for you and your ilk. I honestly do.

Tjenkins said...

Hmm, you talk down to me as if I really give a shit what you think of me. Go back to playing your drums in shit bars you washed up old has-been.

Ian McGibboney said...

And who exactly are YOU, TJenkins? You know who WE are. In fact, it's all you seem to know. I'll ask you for for about the sixth time: what have you done of any note?

harold D said...

Ouch man...
see, you do have a sense of humor Tjenkins. There's hope for you yet! About all else I can say is... lighten up. I have no beef with you. I don't like most of the viewpoints you have expressed here, but I have nothing aginst you personally. I may strongly disagree with your viewpoints, but what I served up here certainly wasn't in the same spirit as the personal attacks you've slammed against Ian and the other folks that have responded to these past few blog topics. Like I said, I'm not going to argue with a grave stone.

Michael said...

I can and I do deny that I have any kind of hatred ("uncontrolable" [sic] or otherwise) for the military, TJ. If I hated the military, that would mean hating my dad, my stepfather, and a whole bunch of relatives of mine. It would also make it extremely difficult to pursue my doctoral research in history, which focuses on the occupation of Germany after the Second World War by, wait for it, the military.

Your problem, TJ, is that you've been spoon-fed an easy-to-digest stereotype that allows you to remain happily ignorant, in what you assume to be a position of superiority. In fact, you're jousting against a straw man, so "winning" isn't really all that much of an accomplishment. Cling to your prejudices and biased assumptions as hard as you want to--that doesn't make them correct, and it will certainly not do anything to advance your cause. It does go quite a long way toward explaining why your party is descending into regional irrelevancy, however. From that perspective, and that perspective only, let me encourage you and all of your Republican buddies to keep on doing as you are--it will only hasten your disappearance from the national political stage, and ensure that you stay off of it all that much longer.

Tjenkins said...

Ah, nothing I love more than a sanctimoniuos liberal telling me all that's supposedly wrong with my party. You dorks win one election and it all goes to your head.

NOLA Progressive said...

The democrats or whatever faction of the democratic party is in power will eventually lose its majority. There is no doubt there. It's simple historical fact, but I'd hardly say we win "one" election. Obama won the presidency by over 10 million votes. That's a very substantial number. Now that Franken will eventually be seated, we also have a filibuster proof majority. These are not minor boons granted by the electorate.

A strong and rationale conservative party plays a positive role in our government to counterbalance the liberal movement on some issues and legislation, but this means a true Conservative party. Not a cooky minority faction of the party that uses biased and gerrymandered religious interpretations to determine what their policies will be.

Why don't you see that if you believed in true conservative policy we could all have a rationale discussion. If you want fiscal responsibility, small federal government, and strict constitutional interpretation we can at least have a discussion. Instead all I see you do Jenkins is pre-suppose that you know everything about every liberal, and curse and insult people. Not a very strong stance for a conservative argument.

Tjenkins said...

Oh man this is awesome, my day is now complete. I have been talked down to by not one, but two self-righteous, douchebag liberals.

When Obama and the economy tanks by this time next year and you and all you're little cretins in Congress are kicked out by those very same voters you think love you...will you still be this sneering and condescending? My guess is yes, you will, because that's the only mode you liberals work in. You believe everything is yours, the government, our money, what we own.

According to polls the forgiving nature of the American people will wear down and Obama's wave of popularity will soon be gone and yeah, you'll have a filibuster proof majority, but guaranteed you'll only have it for a very small time and you'll be so scared of pissing the people off that you'll be paralyzed and unable to do anything too damaging with it. Then the grown ups will come back, slap you on your bottoms and send you back to your coasts where the people can be sure you'll do no harm.

Ian McGibboney said...

If by "grown-ups" you mean the neocons who ruined this country, then I'll stick with the children, thanks. After all, we are the future.

Tjenkins said...

Ah sticking to the talking points! good little liberal.

Ian McGibboney said...

Generic sentence for TJenkins to accuse me of stealing from Daily Kos.

Michael said...

To be called a douchebag by you, TJ, is a compliment. Your problem, however, is that yours is the party of douchebaggery--and not even competent douchebaggery anymore. Keep on going as you have been and the only people you'll be able to convince to vote Republican will be in nursing homes--and then only if they're white.

Meanwhile, out here in the real world, this country is getting more and more diverse--while the Republican Party, which started out as a whiter shade of pale, is getting whiter and paler (and older). That's not a recipe for success in any book, as your party is even now finding out.

Sure, the Democrats will have to reinvent themselves over time or die. But unlike you Republicans, we've demonstrated that we're pretty good at that. You people think the problem isn't that you haven't had a new idea in a couple of generations, it's just that you haven't stuck to your old, tired ideas hard enough. (Which is also true, but largely irrelevant when it comes to the suckitude which is the Republican Party today. "Party of Lincoln," my ass. Honest Abe would be embarrassed to be seen in the company of idiots like you.)

NOLA Progressive said...

My intent is not to talk down to you Teej (thanks ian for coming up with that one), but simply to point out the tone of your arguments and their inneptitude. I'm trying to understand exactly what your opinion is other than all liberals are douchebags and Obama is the ruination of the world. You are a conundrum. You hang out on a liberal blog constantly which makes little to no sense, and you write nothing but personal insults. Do you think that a progressive blogger is suddenly going to start writing about the need for corporate tax breaks or prayer in schools? Our dogmas, while they vary slightly from person to person, are consistent within both our respective sides of the aisle.

My point here is that I occasionally drop in on Free Republic to view the opinions there along with any cogent arguments that may be present, but I don't expect to see a focus on items and issues that are dear to my ethos. Also on the rare occasion I engage someone there in a discussion thread I discuss facts civilly. I don't think I would make much of a case for myself or my views by calling everyone douchebags and jesus freaks.

Tjenkins said...

Michael, what's wrong, the 40 visitors a day you get to your hate filled blog not doing it for you, gotta go slumming over here at Ian's equally barely read blog? Maybe you guys should poll your readers, maybe you could break a hundred visits a day...well 50 if you exclude Google bots.

Ian McGibboney said...

This from a guy with no discernible blog of his own. Hilarious!

Tjenkins said...

I just find it funny, you toil away for 5 years, writing your drivel and having no one read it whereas I created a Twitter account less than a month ago and already have more people following me daily than you see in a week visiting here.

Like a typical liberal you just think you're oh-so important..what you do really matters! But it doesn't, you have your confederacy of dunces like Mike and Nola reading your rehashed talking points and nodding in agreement with whatever Kos-approved meme you regurgitate, but no one else of merit and your readership growth is more stagnant than your sex life. You're a joke Ian, and so is this blog. You post up your ridiculous "Best of" shit in your sidebar, but going through it it's a wasteland of bland articles with zero comments. You're so pathetically irrelevant that I wonder why you bother.

Ian McGibboney said...

Yes, my blog is so irrelevant that you're here more than I am. At least I have the excuse that it's MY irrelevant blog. What's yours? Surely your life is not so empty that all you have to do day in and night out is make fun of my irrelevant writing and my sex life (speaking of deep breath...). How do you even have time to Twitter?

I've always done my blog as a labor of love. Readers are fickle. They ebb and flow, but that's true with every site. One thing I've learned in the past five years is that people with no ideological ground to stand on will always resort to personal attacks. That lesson alone has been completely worth it (not to mention, entertaining).

Tjenkins said...

Ian, I only come here to incessantly mock you and your pathetic irrelevancy. Do you really think yours is the only liberal blog I visit? There you go again thinking you're oh so important.

As for your reasoning for keeping this wheezing shitbox around long after its expiration date you sound like one of those desperate "artists" I used to deny loans to in NY. "Oh I love my art, man!" yeah well your art is shit and you haven't sold a frame in 3 years so fuck off.

I could get into an ideological debate with you Ian at anytime, but why bother? You're nothing more than a walking, talking DNCbot that will side with the left no matter how wrong they are. No matter how wrong I'd prove your DailyKos supplied opinion to be you would stick your fingers in your ears and go on posting how AWESOME Obama is, despite the fact that he lied to you idiots and you fell for it. Hell, you're such a shill you voted for John Kerry and somehow think it was a good idea!

NOLA Progressive said...

You are a very pathetic little man Teej. You only hang out here to mock the writing? What the hell is that? I mean seriously. I apologize for being a little crass here to the other readers involved, but you are a complete and utter jackass. You're the kind of moron that gets all fired up when you get the horn honked at you in traffic, then quickly turns your head and speeds away when you realize it is another man and not a woman.

You ooze assholery if you'll pardon the invented word. You don't like me because I'm a meme, Ian's writing is shit, all the rest of the folks here (oh wait there aren't any; I suppose there figments of my imagination) are just liberal idiots and douchebags.

Mr. "I have a really successful Twitter page" and you're writing sucks yada yada. What's next you Neanderthal prick? Wanna measure our manhood and see who's biggest? That's the type of adolescent crap you have to contribute. It just pisses me off to take a forum where people can agree and disagree civilly and turn it into this.

Ian McGibboney said...

NOLA, I've gone through times in my life where I'm not sure what I believe, or if what I believe is worthwhile. Sometimes I think about quitting blogging and writing altogether. Then someone like Teej comes along, and it reinforces everything. Then I remember why I favor liberal approaches and civil dialogue, and why I'd never trade places with even the richest, most famous jerk on the planet. I know too many Teejes (so to speak) to ever think that mean-spirited personal attacks and a vicious outlook on society could ever drive me.

NOLA Progressive said...

Nice realignment and excellent point. Any bets whether we could proactively predict 'ol Teej's comment on this?

Ian McGibboney said...

"All you liberal DNCbots do is pat each other on the back over your stupid beliefs because you have nothing better to do than to jerk off to pictures of Arianna Huffington.

"And Ian, your blog is so shitty that I'll bet you and NOLA Progressive are the same person with different accounts! How else would you explain anyone ever admitting to visiting this blog? It sucks. You should take your three-inch dick and choke yourself on the syphilis."

How's that?

NOLA Progressive said...

That's pretty much what I was betting on Ian. I doubt Ian would double screen names just to produce another entire blog in the last couple months, which I do have. www.informedsoutherner.blogspot.com just to put that nonsense to bed.

Tjenkins said...

Can you 2 docuhes go suck each other off somewhere else?

Hey Nola, I may be an asshole but at least I'm not a 50 year old has-been living in a FEMA trailer and playing on my $50 drum kit.

Ian McGibboney said...

Well, who are you? I mean, since WE'RE all so pathetic...

NOLA Progressive said...

He's no one. I think that's the point of all of this. We shower him with attention for his intentionally crass and ridiculous behavior, and he's vaguely happy. I see this with my students often, but I guess it took me a bit longer to identify it in print.

Ian McGibboney said...

I'm inclined to agree with you, NOLA.

Tjenkins said...

Yep, two guys that run blogs about themselves tell me I crave attention. This is the part where I laugh.

cord said...

Wow, sure are a lot of comments here.

Ian McGibboney said...

Not a lot of good ones, though.